Dating After 40: Heartbreak, Ego and Starting Over with N.K. Navarro

Reza Ghaemi: Hello, hello, hello. Welcome to the Res Podcast, where we explore ideas, habits, and meaningful conversations that help us grow, think differently, and live more intentionally. I'm your host, Reza Gayami. And today we're talking about dating after 40, modern relationships, heartbreak, self-worth, and what happens when life forces us to admit that maybe we do not have everything figured out. Today's guest is NK, and the real pronunciation is Nikia, right?

N.K. Navarro: Yes. My author name is Ain

Reza Ghaemi: Okay, Nikia Navarro,

N.K. Navarro: K.

Reza Ghaemi: NK, she goes by NK, author of When the Bar Is in Hell, Dating at 40. I love the title. NK is an entrepreneur, educator, single mother, and accomplished woman with two master's degrees. Wow, I have one and she has two. That's crazy. Who found herself unexpectedly navigating the complicated world of modern dating after 40. through her experiences with dating apps, heartbreak. Red flags, emotional unavailability, and starting over, she discovered that professional success does not automatically translate into relationship wisdom. I love that. Her work combines humor, honesty, and vulnerability while exploring boundaries, healing, resilience, self-worth, and learning to trust yourself again. NK, welcome to the Res Podcast.

N.K. Navarro: Thank you, thank you, thank you. So happy to be here.

Reza Ghaemi: Yeah, it's my pleasure. so NK, people often assume that dating should become easier as we get older because we understand ourselves better. And I actually agree with that, but from your experience, what makes dating after forty uniquely difficult?

N.K. Navarro: It's boldface lying. It's bold face lying. That's what's happening after 40. We are riddled with trauma, right? Like we've we've had the heartbreak. We may or may not believe in love. We're still pissed about the divorce decree. We have kids and all that that means. And to be very honest with you, and I I don't think enough people talk about it, our parents are dying or have passed. So now we're in this weird space of being like, dad, don't do that. Dad, you're gonna fall. Dad, you just fell. Now I'm at the hospital, right? So, so that's a lot. That's a whole lot at being single and 40. So here I go being single, divorced, mom of three, one in college, mom has passed, dad just passed in June, and I'm dating.

Reza Ghaemi: I'm so sorry.

N.K. Navarro: You know what I mean? So

Reza Ghaemi: Yeah.

N.K. Navarro: I think that's the hardest part. We're we're in

Reza Ghaemi: Mm-hmm.

N.K. Navarro: we're in the thick of it. Like at a different level, completely at the thick of it. And we have mortgages. Like what what are we doing?

Reza Ghaemi: So here's the thing, we have baggage for sure.

N.K. Navarro: Yeah.

Reza Ghaemi: Like the baggage is real. There's a lot of baggage that we carry out 40. I agree with that 100%. but I think there is also the growth that we we have. Like, like for example, when I was younger, I was a judgmental motherfucker. Like I was a f like if I look at myself in my twenties, I

N.K. Navarro: Yeah.

Reza Ghaemi: was One of those guys that was just an idiot in so many ways. So

N.K. Navarro: Yeah.

Reza Ghaemi: now that maybe it's different. Tell me, maybe it's different from men versus women because I think women develop much like they're more mature in general. Like, you

N.K. Navarro: Yeah.

Reza Ghaemi: know how they always say like women are five, ten years ahead of men. Because with me, when I'm looking at myself, when I was younger, I was just such an idiot in so many ways. And

N.K. Navarro: Yeah.

Reza Ghaemi: It takes a very mature man to accept a woman that has kids, for example. Because

N.K. Navarro: Yeah.

Reza Ghaemi: years ago, five years ago, I was like not willing to date a woman with kids. And now my girlfriend has two kids. And of course, I'm okay with it because she makes me happy and I make her happy. And so what's your take on that? Like, yes, the baggage is there, but like the one more mature at the same time, right?

N.K. Navarro: No, no, we're not. I am I I got more dick pics from 40 plus men on dating apps than I did the younger guys. That's number one. And number two is

Reza Ghaemi: I hope you're okay with this clip going viral on Instagram because I wanna double click on that. You got more dick pics from forty year old

N.K. Navarro: Let's play. Okay.

Reza Ghaemi: men.

N.K. Navarro: Unprov like not requested, just on a whim, lustful, lustful men, and me being me. I'm like, well, where the re where is the rest of it? I mean, if that's the game we're playing, show me something worth looking at, friend. So that was my experience, and that's why I wrote the book, right? Like, what is going on? This idea that, we're 40, so I'm mature. That's a bald face lie. And I would like to be very honest, hold on to your seats. On both sides, on all genders, wherever you're at, all genders. Because here's the thing: on the man side, I feel like, yeah, they have all this baggage, and the baggage is wow, I you know, I didn't want to leave my person, and this person decided to leave me, and now I'm angry, but I still want to get my rocks off, so here's my dick pic, right? And then, or I'm 40 guy saying this, I'm 40, I have no kids. I'm not dating you because you have kids, because I don't want to deal with that crap. That is the baby daddy, that is the early mornings,

Reza Ghaemi: Mm. So I'm insure.

N.K. Navarro: that is the soccer parkist. Like I don't want to deal with it. So I'd rather date a young girl who can give me the baby, or maybe I'll just have tons of situationships. You wanna try, right?

Reza Ghaemi: Mm, mm.

N.K. Navarro: so that's what I found on the guy's side. On the girl side, it's my goodness, I'm over 40 and I'm single. Society has said that I'm supposed to be married, I'm supposed to. Have a house, I'm supposed to have a kid, I'm supposed to have a career, I'm supposed to be still skinny. These boobs need to stand up and be separated. So now I'm dealing with that, right?

Reza Ghaemi: Mm. Yep.

N.K. Navarro: and then when I turn on social media, he's supposed to be rich. He's supposed to be able to fly me out. I'm supposed to be able

Reza Ghaemi: Yeah. A hundred percent.

N.K. Navarro: to say I got flued out. you know, and so then you have that pressure, right?

Reza Ghaemi: Yeah.

N.K. Navarro: And it's like, well, wait a minute, time out. Do you really want the guy that's materialistic? On social media, it's like, yeah, I want to post. But then in my heart of hearts, I'm like, no, can the kid have a conversation? Because at the end of the day, the day gotta end. And I I'm out on these streets trying to run these businesses, trying to deal with all this pressure. I would love to be able to have a real conversation with a real human, not someone who went and bought some red bottoms and that's what they're excited about. I need more substance than that. So that's my experience.

Reza Ghaemi: Sorry, I keep doing that, but you're hitting the fucking nail in the head right there, NK. because I I agree with you 100%. said a lot of things. basically, so where do we go from there? basically, like what I wanted to ask you is you had earned two master's degrees, raised children, taught at the college level, built businesses, and helped other people overcome challenges. Why do you think none of that fully prepared you for healthy romantic relationships?

N.K. Navarro: The same reason I just gave it, I wasn't mature enough. I wasn't accountable enough. I wasn't, I could talk business all day. My ego, stop. It's disgusting. Like I gotta put her in a box. She she could not fill up, like when she walked into the room, she is the room, right? It's it's bad news bears. And what I was finding is I was teach like really treating men as these business deals. So I would meet a guy

Reza Ghaemi: Mm-hmm.

N.K. Navarro: and I'd be like, all right, yep, I what do you do? yeah, I own a building, I do this, I do that. You know, I that's so cool. And at first, like first meeting, they'd be, I'm so impressed. You can really have a conversation. You like golf, you know what a forecast is, you're you know what a million dollar deal looks like, right? Like they they were like, that's kinda hot. But then the moment that I outshined them, that I overspoke, like I over talked them, I didn't give them any space to actually, I don't know, have a conversation with me. and and It was like a control thing. The same way I was controlling every aspect of my business. I was doing the same thing in a relationship and not noticing it, like complete blind spot. And I'm gonna be honest, not even making the space to notice it. Because I'm the prize, right? Don't, don't, don't you wanna date me? I I work out, I dress well, I I know I'm I'm well spoken. I'm I'm her, right? I'm not. I'm not. Right. And so the reason why I'm saying I'm not is I'm not trying to down myself, but if someone got mad at me, I'd be like, I'm sorry, as a checkbox, and then be like, you're not over that yet? Why are you still mad? That's very aggressive. That's very toxic to hold someone's anger as a thing that can be managed. That's just not fair. I'm I'm queen of that foolishness. Queen of it.

Reza Ghaemi: I think intelligence can like successful people sometimes approach yeah as you s as you pointed out, like business and you overthink if you're intelligent. You know how like okay, so here's my thing. You know how like the s like the stereotypical stupid tall, like tall, good looking guy, what's that football player who they roast all

N.K. Navarro: Take one.

Reza Ghaemi: the time? He's like an idiot, right? A football player guy. I don't know his name, but he's not very high IQ. Okay, so typical guy, he gets laid, he gets the girls, but he's like not very smart. So what I'm trying to say is the smarter you are, sometimes the worse you are at dating because you overthink shit. Is that true?

N.K. Navarro: I would say I I'm gonna say yes now I'm overthinking it because I'm I'm on this whole I'm trying to be like an accountable adult. But

Reza Ghaemi: Mm. Yeah.

N.K. Navarro: before like early 40, Nakia, I didn't overthink anything. I had these guys like this. I'm bad and bougie, baby. You know what I mean? It was like, of course

Reza Ghaemi: Mm.

N.K. Navarro: my phone is ringing, of course these guys are

Reza Ghaemi: Mm.

N.K. Navarro: texting, of course I'm being matched, right?

Reza Ghaemi: Okay. Okay.

N.K. Navarro: And in my experience is I'm matching with the same guy. I'm looking for the same thing. He's 6'1, he looks, he's handsome, like I can walk into a room next to him. Does he look good in a suit? Where is he from? Where'd he go to school? okay, great. I'm picking the same shells. And

Reza Ghaemi: Mm-hmm.

N.K. Navarro: I got the same problem, right? And so towards, I'm gonna say 43, 44, I'm like, gosh, why am I single? I'm like, what what is going on? Like right what's wrong with me? the last guy I dated for a expens extended period of time. He cheated on me in my Mercedes. then I dated this other guy.

Reza Ghaemi: In your Merced wait, wait, you cheat on you on your Mercedes? Your Mercedes?

N.K. Navarro: Correct. He picked up. Correct. Correct. Because

Reza Ghaemi: this.

N.K. Navarro: my ego is so massive. Sure, you can drive my car. I was getting I I'm telling you, this dominant piece of I bought my own house. I had two cars. I had a c commercial vehicle. I'm her. I'm I'm think I'm moving like a dominant man. You get what I'm saying? Like he's not gonna cheat

Reza Ghaemi: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

N.K. Navarro: on me. I'm the catch. Why would he do that? Are you crazy? Right? I can have conversation. I'm golfing. Like, let's go. Like.

Reza Ghaemi: Wait, wait, pause for a second there. I'm I'm a little bit confused because I thought that was like secureness. If you're acting that way, isn't that secure?

N.K. Navarro: Not being secure. That's being insecure because again, I'm not dealing with me. Because I have these material things, I have this guy who's very handsome, and I'm not letting him be a man. I don't it

Reza Ghaemi: Yeah.

N.K. Navarro: I don't remember his point in an argument. I don't care. I'm just he's happy to be here. He should he should be overjoyed that I gave him the time of day. Doesn't he? Doesn't he know that I'm the sunshine? The sun is shining on him right now. Just be quiet, sit there and look cute. I'm telling you, horrible behavior. Horrible behavior. Of course he cheated on me.

Reza Ghaemi: Hmm. I see what you're saying. So he used the shit out of you. He used you basically, this guy. Completely.

N.K. Navarro: And I use him. You get what I'm saying? Like, of course he cheated

Reza Ghaemi: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

N.K. Navarro: on me. The girl he cheated on me with, she barely has a high school degree. She's beautiful young lady. But, you know, whatever he needed, of course. She was soft. She was amazing, right? Me, bull in a china shop.

Reza Ghaemi: Mm. Yeah.

N.K. Navarro: Right? Don't you wanna go where you you are appreciated or seen? I'm not seeing none of these men. I'm happy these men. Of course you're there. Right? Where you gonna go? You can't find better than me.

Reza Ghaemi: I see what you're saying.

N.K. Navarro: Who wants that? No one wants that. Especially a man.

Reza Ghaemi: No, I listen, if you gave me the keys to Mercedes and gay, I don't think I would cheat on you. I'd appreciate you. I don't know. That's just me. You know what I mean?

N.K. Navarro: Yeah, you'd appreciate me talking down to you and not allowing you space to have any emotion.

Reza Ghaemi: Let's let's let's talk offline about this. All right. This is not about me, but okay. You gotta find the right guy. But okay, okay. I I guess I guess what you're just saying. okay, okay, okay. So so so like what okay, explain more. Like what what ended up happening with your story? Tell tell us about your story because this is crazy. So like what happened afterwards and like you know what I mean? Where you at now?

N.K. Navarro: Yeah, so my youngest son, he's losing his eyesight. He has a very rare disease that it just caught me by surprise. And to be honest with you, everything imploded on itself, right? Like it just I I gotta be super mom. Like, yes, being a businesswoman is great because that's how we're eating, but I gotta be super mom. And so quite frankly, I stopped running most of my businesses. Things just started falling in on me. Because I searched the country for a cure. I was looking for doctors. I was flying everywhere. I found a doctor who would be willing to give my kid a chance. I sold my house. I moved. and so I moved and got here and it was just like go, go, go, go, go. Every appointment, fight in the good fight to get him, you know, all the doctors, all the king's men, all the king's horses, you know, try to put him back together again, right? And we got some hope. And and when I started feeling a little safer, I was like, all right, I'm a download the apps. I'm ready. Right. and mama needs to get laid. It's been some years by this time, right? And so that's kind of what happened. And so I started dating again, different guy, same suit though, right?

Reza Ghaemi: Mm-hmm.

N.K. Navarro: And I kept having these same situations of meeting a guy who just, you know, I was good enough. Good enough to have sex with but not to keep. Or good enough to experiment with, but not to keep.

Reza Ghaemi: Mm-hmm.

N.K. Navarro: I was, you know, this one guy was like, you know, I just got divorced and I'm trying things out. And I was like, I'm the experiment pussy. Cool. You know what I mean? Like just foolishness. And and again, like, I I don't want to be a part of that, especially because I'm in this moment of I I need to be hugged. I need a good conversation. I'm I'm fighting for my life out here with my baby, you know, trying to Give him experiences while he has this eyesight is literally how I'm living my life right now. And a lot of guys are meeting me and I'm telling them, you know, pieces of my story and they're like, I don't want no part of this. Like I mm mm, I'm all set. My child's father was like, No, the more, the worse the condition becomes. He's like, Yeah, I don't want any part of that. So he's kind of throwing his hands up. And so I'm reeling emotionally from from all the things that I'm holding. And so I start dating again. I'm just like, this right guy's gotta be out here. and my search is is really fueled by where I'm from and how I was raised. So my parents were adorable. my mom passed away and my dad never remarried. He, you know, when if anyone asked him, he'd be like, I already met the love of my life, you know. And and that well, delicious. my grandparents, same thing. my grandmother passed away with cancer. And though she had a double mastectomy and you know was so thin, my grandfather would still pinch her butt, you know, like in the kitchen, and they would just be adorable.

Reza Ghaemi: That's that's durable.

N.K. Navarro: Right. So I grew up in a family of married folks. And of course, I'm sure, you know, everyone has their problems, but that consistency, that loyalness, that understanding of family, was really poured into me. And so I kept looking, I kept searching 'cause I'm like, I gotta find mine. Of course I'm gonna find my guy, right? and I kept finding the same guy, married men who tried to so sell me the tale of, you know, we're on a divorce and I'm like, All right, where the paperwork? And and I just got divorced. d really? Because you seem very angry. I th I think you need to go to therapy. Get out of my face, you know. So I kept finding the same guy and they all were beautifully delicious looking men with all of these these issues. And so I I stopped dating again, focused on just stuff, and opened up the app one more time and met this guy. I in the book I call him fire. And so fire completely blew my mind, knocked down walls, and can't spoil the rom-com, but he taught me the lesson of my ego.

Reza Ghaemi: Yeah, I wanna read this book.

N.K. Navarro: Yeah, yeah, yeah. He taught me the lesson of my ego. Please read this book. I think you'll like it. and it was hard to get that lesson. It was he gave me a a a fresh serving of humble pie. and he's at this point wants no part of me. but and I so appreciate the lesson that he he offered to me. he's beautiful, he's delicious, he's he's so great. If I had another chance, I would jump at it. but he's like I'm not ready.

Reza Ghaemi: You're not gonna tell us what happened?

N.K. Navarro: I'm not gonna tell you what happened, you have to read the book.

Reza Ghaemi: my god I'm so well to know what happened. I'm okay, okay, okay, okay. This is good. You're good at this. All right, fine.

N.K. Navarro: Gotta read the book. Thank you so much.

Reza Ghaemi: so question why did why

N.K. Navarro: Yes.

Reza Ghaemi: na NK, why did you ignore the red flags over and over again? Like Yeah.

N.K. Navarro: because I can fix them. Remember my ego? I I can fix you. you you want to start a business but you don't know where to start? Mind you, that's a complete red flag because you're 44, you've never like you live, you know,

Reza Ghaemi: He

N.K. Navarro: in your mom's basement. Like, what are you doing, right? But I can fix them. I can fix them. I can help them start with business, I can dress them up, I can tell them how to speak in certain rooms. I got this, right? So I have I can fix up. This is all my ego. This is all my ego. Massive, massive ego. Be like I can do all things. Just give me a book. Yeah.

Reza Ghaemi: okay, so your story ultimately seems to be much more about dating. what does it truly mean to find yourself again and start over in midlife? Like tell us that.

N.K. Navarro: It's scary. it's an adventure that I'm choosing to lean all the way into. That's that's what it means to me. Of you know, stop pretending that I know all the answers. I absolutely don't know the answers. and just being honest with myself for the first time, not hiding behind the degrees, not hiding behind this business success that I worked my butt off for. But to me, it's easier to do that because goal check. Right. And now I got my checklist and I just work it through. It's it's very for me, that's the skill set I have. But when it comes to facing my crap and my trauma and the walls that I've built and allowing people to show up full around me and not trying to control them, that's the work. That's the work I'm on right now. And so that's what that means to be 40 and actually to what you were offering earlier. Like, I'm mature now. Really? Are you? Because you're acting kind of foolish. Right, and I'm saying those things to myself out.

Reza Ghaemi: Okay. Wow.

N.K. Navarro: Yeah.

Reza Ghaemi: I love this episode. I love it. I love it. I'm excited to like kind of make those those important clips out of this episode because it's gonna be lots. okay, so let me let me ask you just something else. how do you forgive yourself for the choices you made when you did not yet understand yourself? Like, what does the healthier version of NK look? Four in a partner today. And yeah, so let's start with that. So yeah.

N.K. Navarro: Perfect. So in my book, I talk about all the dates and I'm talking cringe, raunchy, all the stuff is in there. And so one of the dates, this guy invites me over to his house. We had been talking, we'd gone out three times. So this is like, okay, I like him. He's all right, cool. he he has no teeth, he's wearing dangers.

Reza Ghaemi: Okay.

N.K. Navarro: Get to the house.

Reza Ghaemi: No judgment. No judgment.

N.K. Navarro: No judgment, no judgment on the denture friends. Veneers are expensive. Hashtag dash real, right? Fine. But I don't know this. You get where I'm going? Like I'm walking in. He's you I wear dentures. I was like, I'm sorry. Right? And so we go to the house, we go downstairs. So he has a he lives in his family home. It's a basement. Now, I have no problem with a basement apartment. Like, that's real. And rent is crazy. But it's a real basement apartment. I'm talking about. You can s the paint is chipped, it smells like mold, the ceiling

Reza Ghaemi: shit.

N.K. Navarro: on the floorboards like a real legit. I I feel like someone is about to chain me to a something, and I will never see my children again. That's that's the level of basement apartment, right? And so his bed.

Reza Ghaemi: And you're still good at this point? Like you didn't run away yet?

N.K. Navarro: I am legit like what is happening in my life, right? I just left my very nice apartment, my very nice everything, to a basement that he doesn't even own, right? His father is home and upstairs, and the kid is legit like trying to bust a move on me. And I was like, you

Reza Ghaemi: The kid is buzz well, how old is the kid? How how old is the kid? Like

N.K. Navarro: Have got to be kidding me. This kid's 46. Living his football dream, like those shattered dream, broken heart that some men still live from like football days. Like those are those trophies are on the shelf, and he's like telling me all about sad moments of like, yeah, that's when, and then that's when I'm like, the Twilight Zone music is in the background, and I just like I literally like this, you know what? Tap out. I gotta take, I gotta tap out. Hey, listen, it was amazing to smell the mold in your basement. But I'm gonna go. I'm gonna go. Me

Reza Ghaemi: Yeah.

N.K. Navarro: and this grade A yummy, we're gonna leave. We're gonna go ahead and leave. Thank you. Thank you so much for reaffirming my boundaries. Before, Nikki would have been like, you know what, I'm not doing this. Let's go to the Ritz. Let's go to the, you know, I would have paid. I would have, my ego would have fluffed up and been like, he's real hot. I can fix them. We're not living here. You know what I mean? Cause I I'm good over here. That's

Reza Ghaemi: Yeah.

N.K. Navarro: what old Nikia. New Nakia's like, yo, if you bare minimum Nakia, he has to have at least a nice apartment. He doesn't have to own a house, just at least a nice apartment. And he has to know that me having sex in a home with his father upstairs and chip paint, it's just not what we're gonna do. Like we're not gonna do that.

Reza Ghaemi: Yeah.

N.K. Navarro: So that's a long-winded way to t to first tell you about the book, but also I understand that that's growth. Before I would have fixed it, I would have been like boom, boom, boom. Now I'm like, I'm all set.

Reza Ghaemi: Respect, respect, respect. Yeah. No, that for sure. Wait, no, this guy was did I miss the part where you said he's like really handsome and shit or?

N.K. Navarro: Swear to God, fine. Like he was a football job fine. Like, still holding on to that football muscle, tall, gorgeous

Reza Ghaemi: okay, okay, yeah. There you go. Mm. Okay, okay.

N.K. Navarro: eyes.

Reza Ghaemi: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay.

N.K. Navarro: Yeah, I would have took that ride if it was it was a nice house.

Reza Ghaemi: All right. NK, I like to keep the ki podcast at 30 minute mark. We're at twenty six minutes. I wanna add just to close, I won't and by the way, I'd love to have you on again after I read your book,

N.K. Navarro: thank you.

Reza Ghaemi: by the way. I hope there's an audio version because I'm not a reader, I'm an audio book kind of guy. Like, and you you

N.K. Navarro: Okay.

Reza Ghaemi: s it is there an audio version of the book?

N.K. Navarro: There is not an audio version yet, the I am working on it as we speak.

Reza Ghaemi: Okay, because you have a good voice, so I hope you yeah, create

N.K. Navarro: Thank you.

Reza Ghaemi: that for us. after everything you've experienced, do you still believe deeply in love? And what would a healthy, lasting relationship look like for you today?

N.K. Navarro: I absolutely believe in love to an annoying level of faith in love. I see love everywhere. I I I love love. I'm not a hater. Like when I see couples holding hands, I'm like, my god, it's okay. It's amazing, right? Like I love it.

Reza Ghaemi: I love it.

N.K. Navarro: Yeah. So not a hater of love. and what is healthy, a healthy relationship look like is

Reza Ghaemi: Yeah.

N.K. Navarro: Me actually allowing a person to show up fully and not trying to change them. I I appreciate and love them for who they are, not for the potential I believe I can make them into. Right. and they see my crap and they're willing and patient to help me move through as well as call my shit out. and just be like, you know what, Nikki, I don't like the way you're moving right now. And I would respect that. I I need that. I need someone who who's invested in me and the best me, best version of me. And the sex has to be great.

Reza Ghaemi: That's beautiful. Of course. Of course. I agree. Yeah, sexual chemistry, 100%. man.

N.K. Navarro: Yeah, yeah.

Reza Ghaemi: NK, this was so much fun for me. Not just because I was drinking during the podcast, but because you're just so much fun to have on the show. maybe drinking

N.K. Navarro: Thank you.

Reza Ghaemi: is part of it, but I don't know. I had so much fun today. where can so ultimately tell us where can people find your like buy your book? Because I Totally want to buy the book. Is it on Amazon or

N.K. Navarro: It's everywhere. So you can go to Books Million, Barnes Noble, Amazon. yeah,

Reza Ghaemi: Barnes and Nobles?

N.K. Navarro: yeah. You can go everywhere to get the book.

Reza Ghaemi: my god.

N.K. Navarro: Bn.com and type in NK Navarro.

Reza Ghaemi: Wait, well, would tell us the name of the book again?

N.K. Navarro: When the Bar is in Hell by NK Navarro. and I just gotta say this small book stores, you gotta go to small bookstores and ask for it because small bookstores are the backbone. of the reader world, right? And so

Reza Ghaemi: Yes.

N.K. Navarro: before you go to the big box, go to the small bookstores and ask for NK Navarro. That's actually where I I have decided to to take my tour as I'm reaching out to small bookstores and showing up there.

Reza Ghaemi: Is it on indigo or no indigo? 'Cause in I live in Canada.

N.K. Navarro: So

Reza Ghaemi: So we have indigo. Like in Canada, I don't know if we have Barnes and Nobles here.

N.K. Navarro: Yeah, yeah. So it should be available. You have Kobo, Kobo has it. I think Indigo has it, Apple Books has it. yeah, yeah, yeah.

Reza Ghaemi: beautiful. Nice. Man, it's been a pleasure. It's been an honor for me to have you on the show. Thanks for thanks for being here, NK.

N.K. Navarro: Thanks for being so kind and interested in my crazy. I appreciate you. And I hope next time you don't have to drink to to endure thirty minutes of me.

Reza Ghaemi: No, no, it wasn't that. It was really not that. It's just I

N.K. Navarro: Yeah.

Reza Ghaemi: just between us, I stopped smoking cannabis recently.

N.K. Navarro: Okay.

Reza Ghaemi: So my next thing is to stop drinking. So one step at a time, okay, NK? so yeah.

N.K. Navarro: One step at a time for sure.

Reza Ghaemi: Thank you again. I'm gonna hit stop and just wait one second before you go.