Are We More Connected or More Alone?

Reza Ghaemi: Hello, hello, hello. Welcome to the Res Podcast, the show where we explore the ideas, habits, and conversations that help us grow, think differently, and live more intentionally. I'm your host, Reza Gayemi. We've never had more ways to connect with people than we do today. We can text, FaceTime, swipe, follow, and message anyone at any time. So why do so many people still feel lonely? Why do relationships feel more complicated than ever? And why are so many of us craving deeper connection? While feeling more disconnected. Those are the questions we're exploring today. Joining me is Catherine Cressani, an author and researcher whose work explores emotional attachment, modern relationships, and how technology is changing the way we connect with one another. If you ever wondered why dating feels different, why people become attached so quickly, or what real connection actually looks like, I think you're gonna enjoy today's conversation. Catherine, welcome to the Res Podcast.

Catherine Crestani: Thank you so much for having me, Reza. I'm excited to see where we go today.

Reza Ghaemi: Same, same. yeah, no, it's it's an interesting topic for me. and ⁓ Catherine, like I I'm just curious, like, do you think people are actually becoming lonelier today than than before? Or like what's what's changed in the past thirty years is is basically what I'm getting at.

Catherine Crestani: Travis. I feel we hide from ourselves more than we used to. So we have so many ways of distracting from from the what's really going on with the in us. And a lot of the time it's it's these things, right? Like, you know, because instead of sitting there and having a conversation that could be awkward, we will dive into a phone. Instead of sitting there and feeling into, ⁓ my goodness, what is going on in my life? I'm just gonna go doom scroll instead, you know, or

Reza Ghaemi: Mm, mm-hmm.

Catherine Crestani: play that addictive Candy Crush app or whatever it might be, you know. So, and I'll be the first to tell you I get addicted to those sort of games too. So, you know, at the same time, loneliness is really interesting because it it's different for everybody, right? Like I can say I feel alone, but not necessarily feel lonely because being by yourself can also be a powerful thing too. I love my alone time. I truly do as a parent I love those moments where I can just go and be myself and not worry that my child's doing something or worry about my partner or anything like that. So loneliness isn't the problem. The problem is when you don't face what it's brought else it's bringing up with it. So often, you know, when we're sitting there by ourselves at home and we're feeling really lonely and sad, why are you feeling lonely about your life right now? What is it that's making you feel lonely? Is it because you don't have that partner that you thought you should have by now. And then my question would be, and what are you doing to shift that? You know, are you doing anything to actively go pursue people? And if you are and no one's working out what is going on inside you that's not attracting the right person to you. So that's one element of it. Then we've got the loneliness of it might be, I have changed so much, I no longer fit in with the people I used to. And I feel really lonely because I haven't found my new tribe yet. So that can be a transition point, right? I know for me, a lot of my friends I grew up with, I don't resonate with them at all. I'm a completely different person. They probably wouldn't even recognize me in terms of how what I talk about, what I do, you know, I'm not the same person. And this is where loneliness can happen as well. Or are you feeling lonely because maybe the choices you have made are different to what everyone else expects of you? And because then they don't know how to do that in their own life. And support themselves. And I know, even for me, when I stepped out of my first marriage and got divorced, I felt really lonely because none of my friends had been through that. And a lot of them were scared because I had chosen myself and stepped out of a dysfunctional relationship rather than stay in it. And it reflected their insecurities. So they kind of ran away. So Loneliness comes in so many different aspects. It's hard to just put it into a box, but it's also a chance for us to go, all right, well, I'm feeling lonely. Why am I trying to run away from that? And I think it was Kiana Reeves who said, there's nothing wrong with being alone because you should be your own best company. You know, so I'm paraphrasing here, don't quote me on that one. But at the same time, you still have to let yourself feel that loneliness to see what's going on at a deeper level as well.

Reza Ghaemi: for sure. you know, I I I agree with you 100%. Wow, you said a lot of things and I'm trying to just like as double click on on one of them. But I think just just taking a step back and ⁓ from a bird's eye level of what we're talking about, like for me, the this idea of like feeling lonely and stuff is like like you mentioned the the cell phones and stuff, right? ⁓

Catherine Crestani: Process.

Reza Ghaemi: Why is it that thirty years ago, is it just me or or is is this normal that today we don't pick up the phone and we won't call somebody and say happy birthday to them or happy New Year's anymore? Is it is that is that just my circle of people that we don't do that anymore or like

Catherine Crestani: My my husband brings this up all the time, right? Because I feel and it's funny because we have this discussion, I'm like, ⁓ I don't want to call them because they're so busy. I'm just gonna send them a text message, or at least I'm thinking about them. He goes, Don't you dare be so lazy, call them. That's what my husband says. And sometimes I do call and if they don't answer, then I'll send a text. Because otherwise, you know, we don't listen to voicemails these days anymore anyway, you know. So but

Reza Ghaemi: Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Catherine Crestani: I almost feel that we've made ourselves believe that people people wouldn't want to hear our voice or wouldn't want to have that conversation or we've put it down to ⁓ but I don't have time to do that. It's quicker to send a text message. But personally, like I just have my birthday like a week and a bit ago. So like I enjoyed getting the phone calls, or I enjoyed the flowers arriving at my door, or I enjoyed those little things because it let people know that they were thinking about me. I will send people a text if I haven't spoken to them for a while and say, hey, I was just thinking about you rather than calling them out of the blue. But sometimes I do that too, because if I feel like I'm like, ⁓ I really need to talk to that person. I'm gonna send them. I'm I love sending voice notes. I actually stop sending text messages because I feel they're more personal. So I have like clients and we have like just on WhatsApp, you know, voice note, voice note, voice note, voice note, voice note. Because you're still it's like you're having that conversation, even if you can't in that real time. So I don't know where this breakdown happened where, you know, we're meant to be available 24 or 7 according to when, you know, you don't call people back, they panic, you know, verse but then all of a sudden it's too hard to call them to say happy birthday. I don't understand the psychology behind that personally just yet. ⁓

Reza Ghaemi: Yeah. ⁓ yeah.

Catherine Crestani: But part of me feels like it's almost like we don't wanna be a burden to that person and it's just a little bit easier to send a text message. Yeah.

Reza Ghaemi: For sure, for sure. I ⁓ I think I was just ⁓ like like when I when I think about it like ⁓ 30 years ago when when we didn't have the texting stuff, it was just I don't know, it was so different. It was so so much ⁓ more exciting to to to call people and stuff like that. And it it it really is ⁓ sad. What's your take on social media? Like like

Catherine Crestani: Natural.

Reza Ghaemi: I've I've been seeing a lot of like content creators on social media saying things like, it's your friends that don't like your posts. It's the random people that do like your posts. Why are we, why are we as human beings, yeah, why why do we do that? Why why don't I like my friends' posts and I I like some random strangers' posts instead? Why is that?

Catherine Crestani: That's true. Because we're passive. Yeah. Because because we become passive participants in our own lives, essentially. So and there's this and it's really funny because I had a client and part of her work was she ⁓ captured images about like little holiday destinations and things like that. And that was kind of her business. And she actually said to me, What does it cost to like your friends post? And I said, Nothing. She goes, and yet they can't do that. What is that? And it's what people I feel they don't realize is that when you just look at something and don't actually interact with it, you just become a passive observer. It's like life is sending you by. If I like something, if I really like something, I will comment. I don't care if it's a friend, if it's a random post that's popped up on my Instagram algorithm, I will participate because my time on social media is short and sweet and I get it done. Because that's how I like it. but at the same time.

Reza Ghaemi: Yeah.

Catherine Crestani: You know, if someone, if my friends has posted something that's really amazing, I will comment on that and participate because they've gone to share that. So obviously it meant something for them, you know, especially if it's their personal page or something like that. What what does it take for you to do that? And I feel it's almost like we just want to be these passive observers. Probably the same reason why we don't call people to say happy birthday. You know, it's like almost a little bit of laziness. And almost like we get sucked into the whole point that these easy scroll, doom scrolling behaviors come about is because we're trying to numb ourselves. And sometimes the post can trigger something in people. So I put I was promoting my book. ⁓ it was two months ago. I had a month and I just focused on promoting my book. But it was all these relationship triggering questions. And I put this one up and my husband watched it, and he actually said to me, guys, That post you wrote, he goes, that triggered the crap out of me. And I was like, really? And he goes, Yeah, but he didn't like it or anything. But I had so many people come back to me saying that post, that post, but they didn't like it. They didn't, you know, I was like, Well, how about next time you put like a like, but they're like, ⁓ no, that was that that would have been too much. Cause then I would have been acknowledging that that that that was going, yeah. And some of my friends, they're like, it was just so confronting.

Reza Ghaemi: Your husband said Wow. Yeah.

Catherine Crestani: That we couldn't like it. Like almost like it was so reflective of what was going on inside me, I couldn't like it. And I can't even remember what the post was. I think it was something like like you were pretending to be someone you weren't just to stay in the relationship. I think it was something like that. So ⁓ or the relationship that never was. So this is where that I feel this is how people show up to life as well, right? And how you show up to any aspect of what you do.

Reza Ghaemi: Mm.

Catherine Crestani: often is reflected in other aspects. So if you're showing up to patch social media, watching your friends posts, enjoying it, but not even bothering to put the like or a comment, you know, like like's amazing. Comments even better. You know, comments full on effort, right? That's the phone call. That's our happy birthday phone call. The cot the like is the text message. Right? The the scrolling, that's ⁓ it was the person's birthday. I just couldn't be bothered or I forgot. You know, but

Reza Ghaemi: Yeah.

Catherine Crestani: Where else are you doing that in your life? You know, where in your life are you just passively scrolling through or passively walking through and not being an active participant? You know, so this is where start looking at your behaviors and seeing where else it's showing up because I can promise you, if that's what you're doing in your personal life, you're probably doing it in your professional life too. You know, or you're probably doing it in somewhere else or discounting yourself in some way that you don't feel like you can acknowledge another person because you haven't acknowledged yourself.

Reza Ghaemi: Yeah. the self that you mentioned. ⁓ like can someone truly love another person if they don't love themselves? I think this is a very I'm always very confused. Yeah.

Catherine Crestani: It's really difficult. It's very difficult to do that because when you there's different types of love, right? But unconditional love, you unconditional love you means you love that person, including yours yourself, can fall in there. Like with it everything, the baggage, the flaws, the shadows, the triggers, whatever it might be, that that is love. It's all encompassing. There's no judgment. It's just, okay, you know, I truly love you. But if you can't do that for yourself, how are you showing up in that relationship? Are you putting masks on to show up how you're meant to think you show up? And I talk from experience, you know, I did this in my first marriage, I did this in my business partnership, I did this in my own company, where everything's fine. Well, really, it is not, you know, and if you're not honest, you just keep putting masks on and it's like you keep and you're shutting yourself out. So this is where. When you learn to take those masks off and take the shields down, what is left is you. And if you can't love the parts of you that feel uncomfortable, how is anyone else gonna appreciate and accept you fully who you are if you can't accept yourself fully where you are? Because usually what happens outside of us is a reflection of what's happening inside of us. So if you, for example, I was pushing myself, pushing myself, pushing myself. And I knew I had to slow down, but I wasn't listening because I'm one of those people that would just go, go, go, go, go and forget to stop. I will burn out 100%. I've done it. I've been through burnout. I've done all of that, right? and my car, my car's tires needed changing. I was like, ⁓ I know they need to be changed. I'm just gonna keep putting off, putting off, putting off. And then the battery was like, I'm like, ⁓ it's fine. I'll just keep putting off, putting on, putting off. Anyway. So was driving my husband to work to drop him off. And I swear someone took my steering wheel at the same moment I was pulling over. An extra hand kind of came, I want to call it divine intervention, and I went into the gutter. And my husband's like, what are you doing? I'm like, it wasn't me. You know, this is me. I'm like, it wasn't me. It was some spiritual intervention. And my car managed to hit with the front wheel a broken gutter. So it wasn't like I just got a flat. It was the tire was slash, this is a non-negotiable, you have to get new tires. And so I was like, ⁓ so then my poor husband has to change the tire for me before going to work, you know. And then the next day I was sitting there going, wow, like that was actually pretty good timing because we just came into some extra money and you know, because tires are expensive. So I had someone come to my work to change the tires. And then I they were done and they called me. I said, ⁓ do you need help moving the car to a parking spot? And they go, no love, unfortunately your battery won't start. I was like, ⁓ my God, really? And they're like, yeah, we would replace it for you, but we don't have any on the truck. And I was like, that's okay, I'll deal with it after work. So I was all excited because I finished early that day, but then I didn't end up finishing early that day. So I'm sitting in the car and I went, ⁓ my goodness, this is what's gonna happen to me. I'm gonna blow out a tire or I'm gonna run out of steam if I don't actually stop right now, what I'm doing and actually slow down. So my car was reflecting what was happening inside me internally. And this happens all the time. I have had friends who are like running through life and they'll fall and break a foot because they're not actually slowing down. You know, the this is what can happen. And so, you know, if you're in these relationships or these dynamics where you haven't been honest with yourself, they're just gonna reflect it back to you. You know, and

Reza Ghaemi: Mm.

Catherine Crestani: If you then go, ⁓ they're a terrible person, break up with them, but you haven't actually worked on yourself at all. You're gonna go into the next relationship and the exact same thing's gonna happen because guess what? You're still attracting the same people because you haven't done anything to shift what's happening in you. So this is where that loving yourself comes in, and it's not that whole like, ⁓ I'm gonna go have self-care and go get a massage and a facial. That is not loving yourself. Loving yourself is like, I'm feeling really burnt out today. Maybe I just need to take, you know, half an hour where I go sit outside with my cup of tea and look at some trees. You know, maybe I just need to stop what I'm doing right now and have some a few deep breaths and reset. Maybe I need to have a nananap today and that is okay as well. You know, and giving yourself permission to do that. And I can tell you how many times I have fought against resting, even though my body's needed it, and then I finally give in. And I wake up and I kid not resonilly every time there'll be money in my account. ⁓ So it'll be a new client booked in and has paid, you know, or this this money I was waiting for for weeks finally shows up, or this money from nowhere will show up because I listened to what I needed in that moment and loved myself that way. So I'm not talking romantic woo love. I'm talking what do I need to.

Reza Ghaemi: Ha ha ha.

Catherine Crestani: Be me in this moment. And if it is resting, rest. If it is, you need to have a deep breath, have a deep breath. If you need to actually have a conversation with somebody and get some support, then do that too. You know, honor what you need in that moment. And that then will then create that strong foundation. So when you get into that relationship with that person, you just love them for who they are. They love you for who you are. And together you can great things that you love together.

Reza Ghaemi: Amen. Yeah, no, that's ⁓ that's well said. so then I think as in general, like we know these things, like we've we've we hear them all the time. Love yourself, work on yourself. So why is it so difficult? Like why why don't people just do that?

Catherine Crestani: It's painful. It's painful. Honestly, it can be painful. You have to have courage. You know, it can be easier just to stay in denial and bury your head in the sand. You know, it's it's uncomfortable. And we don't like uncomfortable. We don't like, you know, I have gotten to this point in my life where if I'm triggered by something or if something comes up, I will jump into it because I don't want to keep dealing with it on like another level. ⁓ but it took me a while to get there and it does require some courage. But courage isn't something you're born with. You have to learn to be courageous and you have to learn to back yourself as well. So a lot of the time we we stay in the same patterns because they're they're easier. And I'm not gonna lie, creating new habits in your life, it's a lot of work. You know, like Atomic Habits describes it so beautifully. Like James Clear does such a I love that book. If anyone's curious about how to change your habits, he does a great job at describing it. But it takes, I think it was 22 days before you establish a habit. And then another two 22 days before it becomes like part of your everyday. And then another 22 days before it comes automatic. So you gotta think it you gotta really stick to it. This is like when you go to the gym, right? You're like the first week you join, right? It's okay. It's like the first week you go, you're like, yeah, I've joined the gym. I'm gonna go every day. And then the second week comes and you're like, that was really hard.

Reza Ghaemi: haven't been going to the gym. Tell me, tell me, I'm excited.

Catherine Crestani: I'm not gonna do that anymore, right? So, and your brain looks for excuses. ⁓ no, I didn't pack my gym bag. I I haven't got my water bottle ready. ⁓ I don't have my gym stuff in the car. So to counteract those things, you just start putting things in place. So it's like, okay, I'm gonna go when I wake up in the morning. You know, you have your gym bag by the door. So you're basically tripping over it. You have everything ready to go. All you have to do is get in the car and drive. That might be too much. Okay, well, I This one book I read, I don't know which one it was actually. But anyway, he's joked that he went to bed with his gym clothes on and then woke up. So he was already dressed for the gym. And then he had his ⁓ gym shoes next to the bed. So he stepped out and stepped into the there was no excuse. He was ready. Right? So yeah, but it's but it's pairing it with something easier to make it feel easier. So it might be

Reza Ghaemi: Ha ha ha ha. ⁓ That's awesome. Way to go, way to go. Yeah.

Catherine Crestani: I'm just gonna go to the gym today for 10 minutes and do one set of exercises. Or I'm gonna go to the gym today and do this. So for me, like I do a little bit of like I do wall push ups and I do ⁓ some balanced yoga things every day. And if I don't do them, then I miss them because I've gotten to that point. But if I have to do a workout, I purposely make sure that I've got all the things that I need set up so I don't go into that excuses because I know what it's like. It's like, but I have to pull the mat out. You know, it's just that little bit too hard. Whereas the day before I was like, yeah, I'm gonna get up and do a workout tomorrow. You know, didn't so have the mat ready there. So when you wake up in the morning, you're like, ⁓ my mat and my weights there. I'm just gonna pick them up and start doing stuff. You know, so pair it with. Tasks that take away from that cognitive load. That was the biggest thing that came through. You know, and if it's the gym, have what is why is why are you going? You know, is it just because it's an expectation or do you have a goal? Because if you're motivated, you're more likely to go. I want to fit in and look really good at my sister's wedding, you know, in the dress, you know, then you might be really motivated to go, right? Because you're like, ⁓ my god, I'm gonna be in so many photos. No, I'm gonna go to the gym every day. You know, but you have to find that internal motivation as well, you know, and people talk about as well having a vision of who you want to be and asking, what would I do in that moment? Future me, healthy, healthy Reza, you know, fit Reza, what would he choose to do in this moment? Would he choose to go back to bed or would he choose to get up and go to the gym because I've already set aside that time and honored that?

Reza Ghaemi: Very well said. No, I'm I'm gonna not to make this about me, but yeah, I I'm gonna use ⁓ I'm gonna listen to this podcast myself tomorrow morning and hopefully ⁓ hopefully get some motivation to go to the gym. It's been a while for me. but

Catherine Crestani: Maybe you need like a reward schedule, you know, like we do for kids. Like if I go five days in a row, I can go to the movies or something like that.

Reza Ghaemi: For sure. I'll tell my girlfriend. I'll ask my girlfriend to do that reward thing. but when it comes to relationships, like we have a few more minutes, and I I'd love to take your get your take on, particularly when it comes to relationship dynamics, you and your partner. ⁓ what are some examples of of like when somebody doesn't love themselves? How is that?

Catherine Crestani: Yeah.

Reza Ghaemi: Gonna reflect onto the relationship.

Catherine Crestani: Well, then we end up so for those listening at home, I know a little bit about astrology, but I don't know a lot. So I'm a Cancer Sun, Cancer Moon, which basically means I'm incredibly sensitive and intuitive. So I feel people's emotions very easily. In contrast to that, my husband's an Aries son. I don't know what his moon is, but he basically charges in, because he's a Ram energy, charges in, makes these decisions, has to happen right here and now, and then he leaves again. Meanwhile, I'm there kind of going, I'm in my little shell, and I just I just need to process that and and I don't know what just happened and I don't know. But I know that that's how I am and I know that that's how he is. And sometimes it will irk me up the wall because I'm like, whoa, like you just came in and expected that all to happen in like five minutes, and when it didn't, you got cranky because it didn't happen on your timeline. Whereas my son and I were very leisurely. So we're like, ⁓ yeah, you know, we'll just take our time doing that. We'll get to that. We know that that's what we're doing, you know. So knowing yourself, the more you know yourself, the less you're triggered by that. So, you know, when then when those behaviors happen, you're not taking it on yourself. But sometimes when you are your mindset not be the best, if you're exhausted, you know, if you're tired, those little, those little things can push you on edge. And this is where you catch yourself, right? So you take a pause and instead of choosing to react, you take a breath. Why is this annoying me so much right now? Or like, why is this irking me? Or actually, I'm tired. If I say anything right now, I'm gonna regret it tomorrow. I'm just gonna take a breath and maybe go to bed. You know, and so learning more about those reactions that you have in yourself allows you to show up better in your relationships. And the more that you know about you, and the more you know about your your your per your person or your other the other half or whatever how you want to shout ⁓ your partner the more you know about them as well the more you understand it so sometimes they might say something to you which can be feel really hurtful and then you're like hang on a minute that's how they're feeling at the moment they're just projecting that out onto me they can have that I actually say you can have that projection back thank you very much like you that's that's a you problem not a me problem kind of thing And it doesn't mean it's not a we problem, but sometimes the best reaction is no reaction. Sometimes the best thing you can do is pause and not do anything because sometimes that person has to come to that realization. I heard this amazing interview with a CEO. And what he said was, ⁓ someone asked him what happens if someone disrespects you in the boardroom. And he says, I don't do anything. They go, What do you mean? He goes, Well, if someone disrespects me. I stay silent because two things either happen. Either they start apologizing profusely because they realize they're in the wrong, or the power dynamic is suddenly shifted because I look like the bigger person because I haven't done anything. So sometimes the best thing you can do is nothing. And then the other aspect of that is learning what you need to be loved. You know, so ⁓ a few months ago I like lost it because I was doing a hundred things at once. And my husband's like, what's wrong? I said, sometimes I just wish someone would make me a cup of tea, you know, because I always make the cups of teas. And and then his excuse was because I make custom teas with lots of herbs. He's like, Well, I don't know what I put in yours. I'm like, it's not that hard. There's tea bags there. Figure it out, you know. But then a few weeks later, I wasn't I wasn't well and he made me a cup of tea. And I cried Reza because I'm like, ⁓ my God, he listened. So sometimes, and we've been together a long time. But ⁓ because we're both shifted and grown and our roles have changed and everything like that, sometimes we still need to express this is what I need right now to be loved. This is how I would love you to support me, or this is how I would love you to show up for me. And so the more you know that about yourself, the easier it is to convey that to the other person, which then allows your relationship to grow stronger, right? It might not, it might fall apart, and that's okay. That doesn't mean you're a failure. I want to emphasize that again.

Reza Ghaemi: Mm-hmm.

Catherine Crestani: If your relationship doesn't work, you are not failing in life. It just means you've outgrown each other and move on. If you haven't learnt from that relationship, then that's concerning. But if you have learnt from that relationship, then the next one you set into, you'll be more ready for the next person that comes in. Yeah.

Reza Ghaemi: Hundred percent. Thank you, Catherine. ⁓ just two more minutes. ⁓ and I just want to go back to the social media thing because I just wanna to everybody that's listening, ⁓ just to kind of get your take on what what is a norm now. So remember back when Facebook we would write on each other's walls? Like we would write stuff on you know what mean? We don't that that's not a thing anymore, right? Okay, I don't need I don't think it's like a thing.

Catherine Crestani: Yeah. Yeah. No. It's really not. It's really not. I thought you were gonna say for everyone listening, don't forget to like, share, or subscribe this podcast.

Reza Ghaemi: Yeah. So Yeah, of course. I was gonna do that. But What what would you say what would you say is like in your opinion, just to better r our relationships with one another, do we well what do we do on social media to our friends? Yeah.

Catherine Crestani: Well well first of all Social media doesn't have to be your main point of contact to learn about your friends in their life. You know, if you see a post and you're curious, why don't you send them a text or give them a phone call? Hey, I saw that this happened in your life. Well done. Or hey, is everything okay? I saw that so-and-so passed away. Or you know, whatever it is, use it for a an entry point for conversation. If you sit there and keep passively scrolling through, that's not a relationship with somebody. It's just you're observing. So, you know, I I get really frustrated with people when they're like, Hi, I saw that you posted this and I was like, Yeah, I did. Like like you didn't say anything. And it's like, ⁓ actually like it really resonated or it didn't resonate. And I'm like, okay, well, did you interact with it? Like, you know, but at the same time, social media is just a snapshot of someone's life, right? It's just what we're posting. My social media isn't a reflection of me.

Reza Ghaemi: I know, right? You didn't say anything.

Catherine Crestani: My social media is how I work with people and how I share messages and what comes through on my podcasts and things like that. It's not me. If you want to get to know me, have it we'll have a very different conversation. But then at the same time, you know, I have friends and we'll just share each other stuff with each other. That's how we share our love. You know, it's like, hey, I saw this post and I thought of you. Or hey, I saw this and thought it would brighten your day and we send something stupid to each other, right? Like, you know, whatever it looks like. But We're actively participating, right? Rather than sitting there and scrolling and scrolling and scrolling. the social media platforms are designed to make you scroll. That's what they're designed for. You know, you have, I think it's you have 1.7 seconds to capture someone's attention. So if your attention has been captured and you really like that post, just act be active. Be active in your life and be an active participant. Exactly!

Reza Ghaemi: And hit like on this one right now, this clip, this clip that we're gonna send. ⁓

Catherine Crestani: Exactly. Reza and I are expecting like a hundred likes by the time this is posted. No. Exactly.

Reza Ghaemi: Yeah. Twenty shares at least. Catherine, where can people find you? And ⁓ it's been great having you on the show. Thanks so much for being here. And ⁓ yeah, where can people find you?

Catherine Crestani: Yeah, so the best place is probably my website, which is willowhealing.org, and you can get a slight glimpse into me. but I have a substack as well, which is willowhealing.substack.com or my social media. I'm mainly on Instagram, which my handle is Willowhealing SH. I'm not on there as much anymore. ⁓ it looks like I am, but I am one of those people that would just go on there and have a have it have a posting party and then I jump back off again. but

Reza Ghaemi: There you go. Responsible.

Catherine Crestani: Exactly. And you're in control. You're in control of how much you spend on social media, how much time. You know, be conscious that your energy and your time is your currency and where do you want to put that in life? Yeah.

Reza Ghaemi: Sure. Catherine, it's been great. Thank you so much. And I'm gonna stop the recording.